...so the some of the hits wouldn't flam.

Test very rough mix. Needs much work.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13184331/knives_rough_test_12_18.mp3

I quite dig it. I particularly like that sort of take for the vocal on the varsus. Moar laid back than the other demos i remember. Fits better wif the song than the edgier takes, methinks.

Thanqs. Contrast is a good thing.

Mostly using tweaked stock samples for the time being; working on compiling a proper sample set of my personal... samples that's somewhat organized to replace 'em with.

"Bass" is a Kurzweil K2000. Arpeggiator thing is the DSI Prophet 08.

Fiddles and maps are the Strat into a Super Reverb (clean) with some delay from the Eventide. I think I blended some Flerb from the EHX 'verb box with the old Fender spring 'verb on the amp. Dirty guitars on the left in the chorus are OCD --> AC30 turned up. Pitchshifted chorusy dirtguitar is PRS Artist Series Custom 24 --> Herbie, with a G-Major 2 for the effecting.

I used the Shure LDC/Nady ribbon combo on all the guitars, but I'm finding it maybe a bit dark/bassy for the Diezel. I actually had to EQ it to get it to fit. I think a big part of that is that gigantor Mills cab with those old G1280s. It's nothing if not big sounding, but kinda murky. I should probably treat it like a metal map- which it is- and throw a 57 on there and be done with it. Or an i5, which is brighter. Or both. Hmm...

I rather like his snare. I recall much detestation of its wumpiness. But I like that.

Also Mr. Snaxinski, your singing is quite good.

Works in this context when I turn it into a technosnare, dunnit? It's more real snare than 909. I think I gated the room on this.

And thank you good sir. No magic there; a good mic, pre, and compressor. Some delay. -2db @ 200hz. (This should be a preset or a button on a console. Fuck 200hz in the face. Woof.) I don't think I EQed Chris on Graphite at all with the same signal chain- which flatters his voice better than mine, but he's a natural tenor. My natural- or at least trained- singing voice is deeper. I couldn't even tell you what my "real" range is at this point.

Also: was you at Killing Joke? The lady with the '20s flapper hair up against the barricade in front of Messr. Coleman was my Bestest Friend In The Whole World.

Anyhoo, We'll be up there in Tonto in the near future for someone's birfday in January or February. I will bring salsa. We'll be at Neutral, dancing like idiots and imbibing muchly.

Back on topic: editing drums is mad gay, bro. I can only imagine... no, scratch that, I've edited bad drummers before, and generally the less I got paid for recording them the more the drummer sucked. I'm happy I can have the scroll wheel on my mouse scroll horizontally in Logic. Find what flams, move it, done.

Why is it flamming, are you editing multiple takes together?

Editing drums is something I do every time I record a band.

I was throwing programmed bits under a live drum track- one take, the whole way through. There's a programmed kick and snare behind the real drums now. Were it not for that, I would have left it- It's tight enough for rock and roll. But this is a little electrofied. I think all the drums were two takes and we just used the second one with some minor edits. God knows what the live versions will actually sound like when we're done with 'em.

I am going to try to not edit anything anymore. I never really go nuts with it, but lately, i just do not see the point in making something into something it is not. (Only meaning for my own noises). I figure, i could always sample and program from scratch, if i ever need something done "correctly".

For my own drums, that means i have to get a lot better/more consistent though. This is definitely where my distaste for doing the same thing twice ever, comes around and bites me in the ass. I will often change how i play the beat in a verse three or four times, in like a three minute stretch. Because when tracking, i get bored, i guess?

Generally speaking, if I want it "right" I'll do it again. Sometimes I grow to like the "mistake". I'm not a huge fan of fixing shit in the mix. It almost seems immoral to me when I know I/we can actually play it fer real. Comping takes together or turning my drummer into a drum machine doesn't count somehow... but I think that's an aesthetic thing- part of the organic/electronic dichotomy we're shooting for. The obviously real bits are obviously real.

Chris: I think you could probably get away with that quite a bit as I strongly get the impression from... only everything I've ever heard you play that you're a very "busy" drummer, the sort that no one expects to ever play the same thing the same way twice anyway.

Also, I'm thinking, listening back, to turning the clean bit into a big stereo thing. There's actually four tracks of it (four mics at once; stereo room and two a couple inches back from the Super). It doesn't seem right hard-panned. The Diezel during the verses is already panning back-and-forth anyway, and we're both just hitting chords on the chorus. Random thought.

That is one way of putting it. And that is definitely how i like things, especially live things. If i could, i would just do everything live and improv, all the time. I feel that gets the most interesting results, honestly, even if they end up being fucked up. The trick for that is having another person (or people) of a like enough mind, to make it a give-and-take sort of mess. But for just me, recording stuff by myself, there are definitely places where there is a better way, and a worse way, to get from one part of the noise, to another. If the part happens twice(or more), i usually do it one of each. I need to be better about how i edit myself in the moment, as i am playing.

Like i said, i don't like doing things that i know will work, always preferring to do it at least slightly "different than the last time". Even going into something with the intent to do something that i have done before, that i know will work: at the last moment, i tend to swerve off and try something new instead. Almost compulsively. That is simply my fashion.

It seems to wow the Maplitonion peeps, at least, in the "shit, he can really play like for real" sort of way. Maybe even if only because we have quirky tastes as a whole and you do gots some real chops- even if you never actually do play anything the same way twice.

This is one of the rare instances I might suggest moderation: the middle ground of "exactly the same" and "totally different" that could be found in "vaguely similar" might be the way to roll here.

It is also weird, because i am WAY more consistent when playing in a band. Like, i can still continually hear different ways that a part can be interpreted(which is my problem with always changing parts - that i can always hear another way to DO it, no matter how many have gone by) but when i am playing with other folks, it is like there is a switch in my head "these folks don't have all day man. Pick one and stick to it." or something.

But then again, that might also be why i seem to start to get bored playing in bands with the same people after writing 5-8 songs with them...

Current test mix. Still need to replace the 909 samples with my personally sampled 909 samples, which are superior.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13184331/knives_test_12_29.mp3

I think this is cleaner, drums sound better, and it grooves more the way I'd like.

Sounds fab.

How it stands right now: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13184331/02%20Knives.mp3

Still want to tweak the intro programming a bit. (I may have my drum engineer throw down with Stylus RMX here.) The overall mix balance needs to change in the "rock" section coming out of the last two choruses. Louder guitar + live drums. The arpeggiator (played live) is out of time at the end. Quick fix, along with a couple points on the comp'd synth bass track where the bass poofs out. There was originally a clean lead line coming out of the first chorus, but we trimmed the section by half and I'm playing a different, dirty lead there live now.

Overdubbing the bassist's backing vox tonight. I may re-cut some or all of the lead vocal?

I am generally happy with the drums.

In parts it sounds 100%.

The only thing that sticks out to me, is those low end dropouts you mention, at about 2:15, and then again at the other part with the "cut down" vocal bit.

Arpeggiator at the end sounds fine to me too. I like the live feel of it, not being 130% locked in.

That's lazy (non-)editing on my part, re: the bass. Most of it, I think, is sounding very nice. It's not the easiest thing to mix considering it's, with the exception of the 909 and glitchy stuff, all live playing, a dozen tracks of real drums, and I'm going for a very slick technorawk thing here.

That being said, I listened back before I put on Cam's song, and I might leave the arpeggiator at the end how it is. It doesn't really sound so off in the actual mix. It sounds like a real keyboard player versus a programmed backing track. I am okay with this.

How's the snare?

Snare sounds fine. A little bit of raw ring still, but it sounds well controlled, not out of bounds at all.

Yeah, snare sounds fine. Full and whumpy in parts (where the mix is more dense) and with just a touch of ring coming forward in other parts(where the mix opens up a little). Works well in both situations.