Okay, so today I decided to record a little acoustic guitar and vocals together, and then some just acoustic guitar by itself. It's a shitty Fender acoustic with real old and real big strangs.

http://soundcloud.com/cameron-heck/acou ... ocals-test

Shure KSM27 aimed at 12th fret and about 2 feet back for both sections, 990 on vocals for the first half and aimed at the bridge for the second half.

Sounds sort of unfocused and boom-y to me (though that may be abusing the thing?). I like the 'verb but I really need to figure out the ideal positioning for this shit. But it is not terrible, I think it would be servicable were it something I liked the performance of and had to keep.

And I am not big on my voice either.

Actually sounds pretty okay. Most of the lo-fi i hear comes from the guitar itself i think, hearing lotsa of fret buzz and deadish string-type flavor.

It might actually benefit from a second closer mic on the body, maybe even something like an SM58, to catch some more of the wood/resonance of it and fill it out some more.

Normally, when i record acoustic, i just go git+vox into my one MXL2001, but yours seem different enough from mine that i wonder if that wouldn't work very well at all.

I have also in the past had some success using a boring old SM58 as the body mic. Has the added benefit of being a tighter pattern than the 2001, so i can aim it a bit to get sightly less vocal bleed innit when i do bofe at the same time.

Oh yeah, plenty of dead string action and fret buzz. The latter being both mine and the guitar's fault. Maybe more mine though.

How/where would you place the 58?

If i am not using a pick i will practically mic the sound hole. If i am using the pick i will try a couple places and see what i like, because sometimes the soundhole area will be giving too much pick plickle. Essentially i would be using a further out condenser for the bulk of the sound, and the closer mic, lower in the mix, just to shore up the body.

Alternately, you could just mic it up open mic folkshow style, a 58 on the soundhole, a 58 on the vox and be done. Sometimes this works well, especially when you want it to sound like that sort of vibe, which is a bit different than what an acoustic and a voice in a room really sound like, generally.

IMO, there are almost no wrong ways to mic acoustics. Even the "shitty" methods have a special character to them that is sometimes cool. Depends on what you're aiming for.

I'll chime in as the asshole who never mics the soundhole. The bridge, yes, all the time, soundhole, no. Too boomy. Just me, though.

The KSM is, IMO, a good choice for the body of an acoustic; I liked combining it with an SDC at the 12th fret. I tend to mic the acoustic pretty close, no more than a foot back. I do believe I have a clip of this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13184331/KSM_NT5_NTK_acoustic_test.mp3 with the mics in order, and then combined. If I'm remembering, KSM bridge, NT5 neck, NTK room.

But yeah, there's a million ways to do this, none of which are "wrong" and it's mostly determined by what you want from an acoustic sound and the context it's going in. If it's a strummy thing in a big rock track, you could have something really thin and bright that would never, ever work with just a guitar and voice. (At least, if you wanted it to sound normal.)

Alright, this is the most mics I've ever thrown on a kit, and there were a couple compromises. Because of the available mic stands and their abilities I could only use the 2001 for right OH, which I wanted for snare duty, but that is where the 990 unfortunately is. Details are in the link. But even with things the way there are, I think this is quite a nice drum sound. I think the toms are captured real well.

Also, I tested this gobo thingamabobber I made that goes between the hi-hat and the snare mic, which was micing shell. The gobo itself was just a piece of cardboard I put synthetic fur over for some amount of sound absorbance. I was hoping it would be more effective, but it did alright. At 2:20 it is the snare mic solo'd with the gobo up, and then at 2:40 it switches over to without the gobo.

And the playing is the hi-hat and snare/sloppygrind shit you know to come out of me. Also, some spazzy fuckering around with the double bass pedal.

http://soundcloud.com/cameron-heck/slop ... i-hat-gobo

Sounds good, though with any drumsound you won't really know exactly what you've got until you try to put some bass and guitar on it. But the snare is forward and the cymbals are back, and the hi-hats are a good level. The kit balance is good with this setup for sure.

And you definitely have the room on your side.

Ghettogobo is definitely doing something. Make it out of something denser than cardboard and i think you will get even more hat cut from it.

Fairly open foam, for the ghettogobo. Or, fuck, it occurred to me- a small bit of fiberglass insulation. (Obviously you want to cover this with something.) The sort of things that are used for acoustic diffusers.

Kit balance is good. And like Chris commented, snare is forward, cymbals back, which helps immensely. That's one thing I've found in mixing- once you get guitars and bass in there, it can be surprising just how loud the kick and snare really need to be, and the balance, with the drums solo-ed, can seem really out-of-whack, with the kick and snare being monstrously loud.

The toms are coming through well here, and have a lot of body to them. That's probably the hardest thing to get in a more minimal mic setup. Getting the attack of the toms is easy in any overhead configuration, but getting some real weight to them without close mics can be a chore. (Though you can fake it if it's not happening in the mix and you have an extra pair of tracks. Gots to work with what you gots.)

Alright, tone test with the AC15 running with the 2x10. Details inside.

I had an SM58 4" off the Greenie, but it sounded like shitty balls.

NEVERMIND, here is the new link, I forgot to do up stereo bullshit for the tandem mic spots.

http://soundcloud.com/cameron-heck/ac15-tone-test

I thought these seemed like good starting positions: from what I can tell, I am not big on close mics for the sort of rock sounds I play. They are not anything I am blown away by ATM, I think the amp sounds better in the room. But it is not bad. I think having these new mics around soon will also give me some other options to fuckz with. I think it is mostly the PR40 & MK-102 that wil be seeing use on the guitar portion of drums+guitar live tracking for my own shit.

Any ideas/suggestions for mic techniques?

AND GODDAMNIT. Because I erased the previous one, I also erased the details about mics and positioning. The last 4 obviously separate and also similar waveforms are in this order: KSM with middle pickup, 990 with middle pickup, KSM with bridge pickup, 990 with bridge pickup. Mics are exclusive to the corresponding cabs mentioned.

How far are the KSM and 990 from the speaker? I prefer the KSM on its own; it sounds to me more like being in the room with something vs. a distant mic. Probably has a lot to do with the midrange.

A 57 dead-nuts-center on the cone ain't the be-all-end-all of recorded guitar tone.

I'm curious to hear what you think of the ribbons once you have them. They are a really different flavour with their low-end response and the figure-8 pattern.

It is funny that you say that about the distance, because it is actually the KSM that was farther away. At first they were both 1' away and I was using the Mustang and decided to switch guits because the bridge pickup of the 'stang is just too goddamn noisy, but before I did that I moved the KSM back half a foot thinking it sounded better. I also much prefer the KSM, though I think I had it sounding better before with the Lil' Night Train and just the 2x10.

BTW, I also have forgot to mention that it's MV disengaged in 7.5 watt mode, with the volume maybe around 12 o' clock. I am thinking that maybe it will be a bit brighter (which is cool with me) in 15 watt, and I will most likely crank it quite a bit louder. I am thinking it needs a bit more saturation for the riffy stuff. I can get it a decent bit more gritty, but I may be needing some sort of OD in the future.

Also, it has occurred to me that I liked the 990 on the 2x10 with the LNT, maybe I should have thrown the 990 on there for this one instead of the Greenback. The 990 seems sort of "boxy" or whatthefuckever now listening with the KSM to compare, but maybe I liked it's characteristics with the 2x10. I think if I were to try again with these same two mics I would switch their positioning.

That being said, I have been kind of trying to think theoretically ahead for the future, I will have: CAD M179, Shure KSM27, Oktava MK-102, Heil PR40, Nady RSM-5, AKG D112, MXL990, Shure SM58 and two MXL2001s. Were I to tell you to address the situation of tackling (1. Recording a 4 piece drumkit with one guitar and (2. Recording same drumkit with 2 guitars and a bass, what would your instinctual selections for mics to sound sources be?

Personally, I have been thinking (for the one guitar situation):

Kick - AKG D112
Snare (bottom/shell) - MXL990
Snare (top) - SM58
OH (right) - CAD M179
OH (left) - KSM27
Toms (floor and rack) - MXL 2001s
Room - RSM-5
Guitar - MK-102 & PR40

In the situation with more stringed instruments, it is likely I will be stuck with one snare mic and one mic per amplified sound source. I am sort of curious how the PR40 sounds on guitar, Dan said he thought it sounded like shit, yet I have seen reviews speaking favorably of it for that use.

15w mode should probably be a big thicker actually. If i recall correctly, the half-power mode just runs the power tubes as triodes. I would expect the sound to be considerably morebetter at full output.

Set up as you have the thing here, it sounds a bit "small amp" to me. Possibly a factor of its cabinet, possibly a factor of a not-broken-in speaker in it, possibly a microphone placement thing.

I would agree that the previous LNT clip sounded a bit bigger and a fair bit better.

I would probably suggest that you just spend some time cranking the thing and playing through it, figuring out how best to make it work for your desired sounds, before you get too involved in making big decisions about what works or doesn't work for microphones or specific placement. It will be a bit different than the LNT, and you may want to use very different sorts of settings than what you might dial in with the smaller amp.

For instance, it sounds a bit bright and thin here. Note that the way an AC15s controls are set up, turning them up will generally brighten and thin the sound, in addition to whatever they say they will do(i.e. "bass" or "treble"). Turning them down will generally have the additional effect besides their stated function, of boosting up lower mids. Play around with settings you don't think will work, and try everything out. There aren't many controls, but they are crazy interactive, so shit happens with odd combinations sometimes.

Definitely do your tests at full power though. And definitely let that speaker break in a bit.

PS, i dig that tappy tappy thing in there, has a good sound and structure to it.

Hm, really? For whatever reason I remember thinking amps generally getting darker at half power, hm. I was hoping it would open up a bit (and maybe get a tad bit brighter along with more of everything else), and sound a little less narrow or boxy, and most of all as you said, small amp-ish. I will really open the fucker up next time around, I guess. The LNT was after all, going fullbore when I recorded it.

And thank ye, I have had that little tapping thing floating around for awhile, I think it has a home as an intro to one of my songs.

Depends on how the amp's half power switch works. In a 4 tube amp, a lot of times it will basically just shut off two tubes, and in certain arrangements this could make a more saturated or darker-sounding amp. In other amps though, shutting off two out of four tubes could throw off the voltage supply and make the amp harsher.

Neither of which matters for the way the AC15 does it though, which is to change the way the tube operates. In my experience, a triode is almost always going to sound smaller/thinner than a pentode.

Just took the time to fuck widdit AND, I totally got it sounding like I want it. I did what you said, and tried some radical controls. First, I decided to see what turning the bass all the way up would sound like (which I wouldn't normally do because it sounded like shit), but there were bass frequencies there that were more punchy than before, so I brought my treble from just above halfway to full on to compensate and that really caught my attention. Now, I've got it set to just a bit below full on with both the treble and bass knobs. And the Tone Cut has been completely off the entire time. It is reminiscent of what I was getting with the LNT with the controls about set in the middle, nice and punchy/jangley.

Okay, now this thing is fucking roaring. I may have to record something today..

http://soundcloud.com/cameron-heck/ac15 ... the-sequel

Much better, I think. Used the same configuration as before, seemed to work better than the other way around. The 990 is a little too honky or something for the 2x10, sounds much more natural on the Greenback.

Would you be able to put together a clip that shows each of the mics individually? I think you are onto something here...