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So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compressor..
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Author:  Unstrung [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compressor..
And am remastering the Enveno EP before we send the shit out to get pressed. I'll bet some of you are getting sick of all this Envenomation business but this is the end of the road for the band, so we are tying it all up.

So if you can stand to listen and offer input/advice that would be much appreciated... :love:

http://www.mediafire.com/?whownjhmq3d2a9o

In particular I'm hoping I managed to fix up the low end. The old version had massive lows going on that were sort of out of control and all over the place. Listening in a friend's car with a woofer (he's the Jersey Shore type) the lows were lacking focus, or something. In this one we still have tons of lows, but hopefully they are more controlled. And the bass drops, are they dropping hard enough? :snax:

Note with drum levels - It was a quick recording of cymbals and a stereo feed straight out the Roland drum module, so I can't do something like raise the snare without also affecting the kick, toms and electric cymbals.
(And if we record again I will be such an ass about not letting him combine electric cymbals and real ones.)
Author:  Snaxocaster [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Acquired and will listen later. :nods:
Author:  torgeot [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
multi-band compressor can fixup a shitlot ton. I had a mix a few years back that was just the opposite, no bass at all. I used the multiband compressor in Wavelab.

Matter of fact it was the covers I posted at the old Mapz site.
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Where are the bass drops, time-wise?

In certain parts it seems like every fourth kick has one?

Which is to say, there is a very dense low end on my speaker/sub setup. I don't know if i would call it muddy so much as congested. Like there is a huge pumping bass content.

That said, i think you have squashed the actual bass drops too much, and they don't have the singular impact that they generally would.

In fact, the bass drops probably shouldn't be having any of their low end "tamed". Their purpose really, is exactly to make the subs go superboom and generally wig out, IMO. Taming them, eviscerates them.

If it was me, i would probably try to cut some low end out of the mix, then multiband compress, then lay the bass drops over the top of that. If you are trying to remove too much low end just with the compressor, you will get the same sort of issues that would arise using a regular compressor to make something that is too quiet, into something that is too loud. The pumping is not as obvious as it would be on cymbals but it is still there, and can be pretty fatiguing to the ear.

At least on these speakers. :idk:

All of that said, i do kind of expect slam metal to be that way though? To some degree anyhow. I guess the question is how much, is too much, for you? :idk:
Author:  Snaxocaster [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Okay, from Chris's comments I'll definitely need to give this a listen on my real system when I get home versus 'phones at my office-away-from-my-office.
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Also, the cymbals sound like they have a fair bit of overdrive on them?
Author:  Unstrung [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
chris_d wrote:
Where are the bass drops, time-wise?


There is one around 1:17, and another at 2:44.

To add in the bass drops I rendered everything but the drops to wav file with the multiband compressor in the master strip. Then I muted everything, unmuted my bass drops, added in the newly rendered wav and rendered THAT down without the multiband but with a master limiter on so it wouldn't clip when they come. So the mix would be multiband compressored, then bass drops were added after with just volume limiting.

chris_d wrote:
Also, the cymbals sound like they have a fair bit of overdrive on them?


I noticed that too. I don't know what's causing that. :idk: It sounds kinda cool though?
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Hmm. Then i would say that the bass drops need some rejiggering. Because they aren't dropping hard enough, IMO.

It may just be that the low end of everything else is just so dense, that there is no room for 'em. :idk:
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Also, i like the idea of overdriving drumsounds, but generally, it might be a good idea to have some element super clean/clear in the mix as well, to play as a foil, and make it obvious that the crunchy drumsound is intentional, and not just clipping from accidental over-volume.

Unless you are going for a more lo-fi vibe like a blackmetal band of something , then, IMO, just make everything distort. :mwahaha:
Author:  Unstrung [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Ah, I think the reason the cymbals sound that way is because in the multiband compressor, the hi mid band is pretty much slammed. Here's a mix with everything reduced in gain, hopefully that cleaned up the high mids. I also just raised the volume on the drops...

http://www.mediafire.com/?ay79fsex1ya834c
Author:  Snaxocaster [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
I'm listening- yeah, on 'phones; my shower is currently being worked on and hammering and whatnot isn't conducive to critical listening- right now to the first mix, and the cymbals do sound way crunchy as fuck. I shall download the second.
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
v2 sounds much better to me. :isay:

The cymbals sound much less crunchy, the bass drops have a bit more "drop" to them, and in generally, the mix is just clearer and less taxing on the ear.

All that said, you could even go further with the bass drops, IMO. Don't raise them, rather, lower the rest slightly. That way you will be more accurately modifying their level, rather than just pushing them further into the compressor.

You could even leave it as is though. This mix is pretty good. :huzzah:

What are you going to have made, CDs? Or vinyl?
Author:  Snaxocaster [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Much less crunchy the second time through. What's real and what's electronic as far as the cymbals are concerned? There's some compressor pumping around 2:44 that's really obvious to my ears... that whole slam/breakdown bit around there is kinda like that. But like Chris said earlier, given the context, it's probably supposed to be that way. The one hit at 2:44 seems a bit out of place though as it does it so much comparatively? I hear this big fluctuation in the low end there.
Author:  Unstrung [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Snaxocaster wrote:
Much less crunchy the second time through. What's real and what's electronic as far as the cymbals are concerned? There's some compressor pumping around 2:44 that's really obvious to my ears... that whole slam/breakdown bit around there is kinda like that. But like Chris said earlier, given the context, it's probably supposed to be that way. The one hit at 2:44 seems a bit out of place though as it does it so much comparatively? I hear this big fluctuation in the low end there.


Of the electronic cymbals there is a hi hat and two chinas. The only way to really tell is that the acoustic cymbals have a lot of room action going on, while the electric ones sound totally dry.

I guess it is still a bit crunchy now, but we've managed to eliminate it a bit at least... :idk:
Author:  chris_d [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Unstrung wrote:
I guess it is still a bit crunchy now, but we've managed to eliminate it a bit at least... :idk:


Before, they were pretty much straight up distorted. Now they are just a little warm, comparatively. I think it works a lot better as such. :idk:
Author:  Snaxocaster [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
What Chris said re: the cymbals. They're not exactly clean, but it works.

I figured the hat was fake. It sounds it. The ride I quite like, FWIW.
Author:  Unstrung [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
I am curious about Metalfanatic's take on this. I know that he was online and surfing this thread when I posted it... :eyebrows: Are you withholding your input because it would be too damaging to my noobile sensibilities? Would the advice you have given humbled me and put me in my place? Am I [retty drunk right now?
Author:  metalfanat1c [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
:lol: No, I listened to it and forgot to comment. My bad. :lol:


The first mix was as everyone else said, kind of congested and distorted. I'll listen to the 2nd momentarily.
Author:  metalfanat1c [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
K, as I'm listening.


The OHs are pretty shrill. In a lo-fi digital sort of way. I would personally bring the snare up like 1db... it's a touch buried. You have to listen pretty intently in order to hear it. I'd also drop the OH volume by a couple DBs and put a low shelf at around 12k dropping about 1 to 1.5 db. That's pretty much all the complaints I have.
Author:  Unstrung [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So I've finally learned how to use a multi-band compress
Mm... as I said before, can't drop the snare without dropping the kick, toms and electric cymbals also. :idk: And if I were to drop the overheads, the electric cymbals would gel with the mix even less? The notes in terms of EQ though shall be given a shot.
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