http://www.freewebs.com/montyjay/jamesamps.html#load

That explains why the tones were so fucking good.

I don't even have to look at that. (I've seen it before, more than once. )

It's funny, I was actually posting about that somewhere else earlier this morning. Those are really wonderful sounding records, and the arrangements are a big part of that. Something that's often overlooked, especially with heavier rawking.

One of the interesting things going on on those records is how dark and bottom-heavy James' rhythm tone is. And there's, like, no top end on the bass guitar at all. (Points for the different bass tones from song to song, as well.) And everything is super-clear and defined.

One of my favorite things about those records is hearing the space between things. It's the first thing that disappears if you dump 'em to .mp3, even at 320. I don't know what it is; tape hiss? It's the sonic black between everything. It's not just the separation, it's the sound of the separation, if that makes any sense, which it probably doesn't. The emptiness has a sound. Maybe it's the 'verb on everything? ('Cause there's a lot more than you'd think. They sound pretty dry at first until you hear all the epic room that's on everything.)

I think it is room sound on everything that gives it that sense of space. You can hear it super clearly on the beginning of Ronnie. The guitar is panned hard left, but there's obviously some room mics going on there.


That and Het's tendency to play totally different things on each side. That's why the records sound so wide and open.

The mix isn't very compressed either... everything has dynamic headroom.

The right side rhythm guitars on both records are Kirk, y'know. Actually playing rhythm on record for all of a couple years. Which explains the totally different tone and feel- brighter, gainier, looser. James is panned left throughout. On Reload especially it's remarkable how little gain James is actually using a lot of the time.

And you're right re: the dynamics. Put on Cure off Load and turn it up for the intro and listen to the room on the drums. I would not be surprised to find out there's distant micing in there on the bass guitar. Something tells me that's not a DI straight into the board.

So that explains why all the cooler addon bits on those albums were on the left side.

Mr. Staub tends to do some pretty weird shit re: reverb. Like, it's never noticeable, but it's always there. I would be surprised if he bounced out to his monitors and mic'ed the control room at some points.

That would do it. The both of them have lots of little lead bits and fills, but only the main solos from what I remember got centered, and not always even those. That's pretty apparent who's who though by the vibrato alone. Dollars to donuts Thorn Within is James, for example.

I do like Kirk's effect usage and tendency toward noisiness on those records. I think of him as more the absolute tail end of classic rock versus a modern shredder, and I think his playing makes a lot more sense in that context.

Have you heard the stems from Load and Reload? There's a ton of monitor bleed in the vocals; they're gated pretty hard. James is not the first person to cut a lot of his vocals in the control room. There's a lot of stuff you can get away with in a mix as long as it sounds cool. No one's listening to it soloed except the engineer... and someone who ripped the stems from Rock Band.

James is definitely the more tasteful player of the two... his solos are always super smooth. Kirk is more the speedy type... but on those two records Kirk downright turned into Angus Young. He's a hell of a lot better rock player than metal player, IMO.

I haven't... I'll hunt them at some point though. Should be pretty interesting to hear what it all sounds like solo'ed.

I have heard the Hamster can play some of that ghey jazz shit too, quite well

To be fair, he's not as horrible as everyone at HCAF makes him out to be.
Those cocksuckers will call Page a hack in the same breath, a case where virtuosity was never the goal in the first place.
He's still pretty meh though.

I always liked him as a melodic soloist, and he's got some vibe and personality. Good from a technical standpoint- and the guy can obviously play a few notes in quick succession for whatever that's worth -doesn't really enter into how I listen to things. But yeah, that's something I think in general is totally whack with the "guitar jock" sorta attitude. It's not a sport; you're missing the point.

Actually, the whole Metallica discussion here and on Sneap's forum (why I decided to go on there I don't know; probably boredom) got me watching The Black Album episode of Classic Albums tonight. It's interesting. Seeing as my sleep schedule is totally jacked up at this point, I'll probably find another random one to watch, drink more wine and pass out around 7 AM. I am okay with this. Hearing other people's thoughts on the creative process is always interesting. I think a thread about the group dynamics of our bands and our writing processes, just here on the forum, could be really insightful. I'm sure none of us work the same way.

I sorta made a thread like that once but it sank like a rock, but almost all my threads do



But I think it was more just about how you write songs specifically, not really the entire creative process.

Cameron, I'll have you know that I may have originated the hating on Page thing. I did it mostly for trolling purposes though, since the mass majority consider him some sort of guitar god.

You pioneered it into the belligerent and funny meme that is "JIMY PAEG AM BAST", but I had seen tons of Govan cockriders calling him sloppy and shit.
The dudes who are into the mad shreddy shit seem to hate on him like he was intending to compete with today's standards..
It's like: Hey, bro...

That has been going on since at least I started reading HCAF, which would be 2002 or so, a good while before I started posting. All the shredder jock-riders. But trolling with it... jolly good show.

It's the meaning-derived-from-context thing I'm always on about with language. The same guys who bag on Kirk Hammett- who I'm using as an example here and not just 'cause I like the old Metallica records- never have anything bad to say about Smith/Murray or Downing/Tipton, who are, really, far more Mr. Hammett's peers than the post-Yngwie shredder generation. And for all the "out-of-key recording of a turkey fight" Slayer jokes- and I've made 'em too- that is pretty punk rock, and that's really where, I think, that noise is coming from.

There seems to be this notion among large parts of the internet-guitarist community that one should only ever take a solo if one is going to play the bl00ze as the musical equivalent of a Civil War reenactor or "flex nuts" and show off just how much you've practiced to a metro-gnome.

I'd almost troll with it just to bust out "hey, I can actually play a little" on whomever called me on it, but that would involve me caring. And I have better things to do with my time, like, say, sleep, or drink.