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What's going on here? 
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Pendulous
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Post What's going on here?
Hint: Rhymes with 'Mig Chuff'


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Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:43 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Nice, ICBM, yo. :huzzah:

Finest form of BM in the land. :eekass:

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:18 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Yus. It is Inter-Continental-Ballistic-Muff.


Tried it today. As expected it doesn't work when I kick it on. I mean when I've tried these things they've never worked. Though the LED lights. I have a strong feeling I know why, though. I think I wired the lugs on all the pots backwards.

Image

This is the schematic.

Still optimistic. Didn't expect it to be easy...

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:22 am
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Reversing the pot wiring should probably not do much more than make the controls work backwards and maybe at a weird taper.

Can you poast more pictars of your build? Ideally a clean shot of the other side of the board.

Mayhap we can suss this fuss out.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:05 am
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Winston Wolf
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Post Re: What's going on here?
very cool. indeed

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:30 am
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Sure I can do that.

Incidentally I had the ICs in the wrong spots. The easiest and funnest part, I screwed up. I have moved them where they are supposed to be now but still no sound. Hope they weren't harmed in their misplacements, since they have different pinouts...

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:56 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
I have done some horrible things to ICs in my day, and i have found them to be pretty hard to really fuck up other than truly reversing the polarity on them and leaving them that way. If it didn't smell like burning plastic you probably will get away with it.

Whenever something i build doesn't work, one of the first things i do is to make sure that none of the ICs feel hot. If they are warm, shut that shit down asap.

Otherwise, lots of stuff can be wiggy with vero builds. Still, it is my favorite way to build one-offs, and is usually pretty simple to troubleshoot once you know what types of things you are looking for.

I have only had a couple builds ever, out of like hundreds now, that just never worked right. And one of the two was ridiculous(first one ever : i was reading the layout backwards and built the circuit reversed) and i don't think the other one was actually a correct circuit(it was supposed to be a bit crusher, and i think that the dude that drew'd it up screw'd it up).

Put up some pictars and we will see what can be seen yo.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:55 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
For what it's worth I doubt the board is where the issue lies. I was very meticulous with it, and none of the traces have joined each other.

The off board stuff, that's probably where the gremlin hides. For instance the mechanism that disconnects part of the input jack from another part of it when a male jack enters it, still not sure which is what. Maybe I need to swap ring for tip.

I followed example #5 below for the outboard stuff. And this might be a big hint: Even without patch cords in the in and out, the LED lights when I step on the footswitch.

http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=76

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:04 am
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
That may be the fuss then. Regarding that, if you are using standard open stereo jacks, look at this image:

Image

The main thing is to look closely at the part that connects to the plug and trace it back to its correct lug by looking at where the metal goes.

The sleeve is the ground connection, that is the tube/ring of metal that contacts the plug at the lowest point.

The ring is the battery/switched connection, that is the middle of the plug. With a mono plug(i.e. typical geetar plug) inserted this means that when plugged in the two grounds are connected, actually via the plug itself. When the plug is removed, the circuit ground is lifted. You must use the correct type of stereo jack for this, as the opposite type also exists, i.e. that makes a connection to ground when the plug is removed and breaks it on insert(they make a couple different styles of this). It is a less common type though(unless you are using closed marshall style cliff jacks!), so hopefully you don't have that to worry about.

Lastly, the tip is the circuit input wire, and it is also, the very tip of the plug.

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:55 am
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
chris_d wrote:
...as the opposite type also exists, i.e. that makes a connection to ground when the plug is removed and breaks it on insert(they make a couple different styles of this). It is a less common type though(unless you are using closed marshall style cliff jacks!), so hopefully you don't have that to worry about.

Lastly, the tip is the circuit input wire, and it is also, the very tip of the plug.


Uh huh. On the female jack, there are five connection points. Three of them are connected, and then two of them are also connected. When you insert a patch cord, one of the three becomes disconnected from its trio. So I believe I have the type you speak of.

I believed it to be the jack tip and treated it as such... really hard to tell what's what, since the female jack assembly is closed up. But I think I may have A) confused ring for tip and B) The jack might not due what it ought to do.

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:25 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
OH WAIT, are you using this type?

Image

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:37 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
I'm building it inside a Behringer Vintage Distortion. I've replaced the footswitch and the mainboard/pots but am trying to keep the board with the jacks.


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Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:28 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
AH. I see. Probably could have reused the switch too, nice clickless vibe on the behringer i have(the phaser) but probably a little involved.

If you are only going to reuse the little jack/DC daughter board there then it should be pretty simple. Literally all you have to worry about is the four wires that come off that and go to the main circuit board. You clould just cut them off to be as long as possible and wire them straight into your new footswitch switch and board.

Probably i would just cheat a little, and cut the wires, plug in a short patch cord in each jack and use a multimeter on its continuity testing setting to determine which wire represents which part of which jack. The four wires should be: input tip, output tip, and common/circuit ground, and +9v. I think it should be that simple. A continuity check directly to the big flat metal piece facing you on the DC jack should go to and be your 9v wire.

The daughter board already has polarity reversal protection on it and also a coupling cap, i would probably just leave them there, won't hurt nuffin.

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Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:52 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Actually, i just did this on my VP1 out of curiosity. I will poast a pictar in a minute to show what i found.

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Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:05 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
This is how mine is set up inside. I would assume that yours is the same/uses the same boards, but it is probably a good idea to confirm that for yerseff if possible:

Image

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Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:20 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
I love how the context of the thread title changed from 'what's Geoff building?' to 'what's wrong with Geoff's thingie?'

My jacks board had a capacitor as well as a diode on it. They're gone... The four wires coming off of it were, from left to right when it is right side up, output jack, GND, the part of the input jack that is isolated when you plug the male bit in, and +9V. So I think it's slightly different.

Going to play around with it tonight and see if I can get somewhere...

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Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:28 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Iiiit woooorks :D


The only issue was that I had misplaced where the input signal meets the board. :red:

It's ugly too. I will post pics.

To describe the sound... Unless you bleed it off with the tone knob, the lows are thick and muddy. The highs are stingy and crisp. The mids are very flat and featureless. I guess that is basically, the way a Muff sounds. The Behringer originally was in the same ballpark, though this is a bit different and I do like it better. One very unsubjective advantage this pedal has over its previous form is that it doesn't weaken my signal when it's in bypass.

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Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:45 pm
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
Pics...

As you might see I used a Molex connector between the footswitch and the rest so I could easily take things apart.

There are many areas where I butchered it, for instance I wanted to keep the original knobs but destroyed them. And the pots are off center. And the battery clip, well, there's no room for a battery anymore, so it's only going to run on an AC adapter. But, hey, I managed to get the LED to sit perfect!


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Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:21 pm
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Magnitogorsk
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Post Re: What's going on here?
YAY!

I always found the IC variants to clip differently. Like, they have a familial similarity with the tone/frequency manipulations but the IC one has a much more interesting flubby but oddly usable scum to it.

I have always found transistor muffs to be a bit to sterile and cleany in how they clip. Wasn't until i first breadboarded the ICBM that i started to hear what i was looking for in that type of pedlol.

You have a bit of wire there, is it noisier than you might expect?

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Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:24 am
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Pendulous
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Post Re: What's going on here?
I know what you mean, there is an ever-present crackle. Nope, not noisey at all!

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Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:38 pm
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