http://www.naiant.com

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Naiant

I'm shopping around for a set of mics to do drums with. I'd rather not just settle for a CAD or Apex drum mic pack, so I'm checking all the other low price options that might yield better results...

I have actually heard nothing but positives about Naiant mics. They're totally ubercheap, but apparently sound decent. Especially for their jackshitcosting. They seem to be well thought of.

What is your budget, pray tell, and how much do you need of what?

The CAD drum mics, FWIW, are pretty decent.

I'm pretty happy with what I've been using for snare mics... an Audix i5 and a 57...

I'd need tom mics and overheads, first and foremost.

My applications are usually metal so I can use my trigger and Yamaha drum brain for the kick drum, though it's good to have a kick mic in case the drum brain doesn't agree with a drummer, or I'm actually not recording metals. So a kick is not priority, but would be needed to complete the package.

I think I'd just have a lot more fun with something else than the typical cover-all-bases drum mic package. But I mustn't break the bank on it...

An i5 and a 57 are as good a choice for close up on the snare as any.

Can you give me a rough estimate of what not breaking the bank would be? I like the response of condensers on toms, and for a metal application you're probably gating those bastards hard anyhow? The little Naiants may provide you some good bang-fer-Canuck-buck.

I'm assuming, 'cause you're planning on doing mostly br00tz, you'll need four tom mics and at least a stereo OH pair?

In my searches I have found an SM57 with erectile problems:



Not breaking the bank would mean... I'd like to keep it under 400$.

My last drum production I didn't gate them at all, they are bleeding into the track all natural-like. But chances are for future things I'll be doing my usual cut out all of the tom track except the parts where the toms are played thing...

Four toms and a stereo pair of OHs does sound about right (I don't use that many toms personally, but then I'm recording might... besides, if it's the Naiant's they're damn cheap anyway). Actually, when Envenomation recorded the engineer put a pair of AT2020s over the kit and I actually really like how that sounded. I already have one, so then I'd only need to buy a second one, tom mics, and possibly some sort of kick mic...

I think I know what I want. One thing I want is to just avoid the damn CAD kit... I used it already, it worked, my friends use it, whatever. I AM A DIFFERENT PERSON.

Have you heard of Apex? I think they might be a Canadian brand... they are very common here, like Traynor and Yorkville products. Anyway here we have a package containing a kick mic and three dynamics for the toms:

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Apex_DP1_Ba ... 1PACK.html

Looks okay.

Get a second AT2020 and I'd be off to the races.

I was going to pick up some of the Naiants, due to their crazy cheapness, but then they discontinued the ones i was looking at, and i ended up going in a different direction for what i want from overheads.

They are well reviewed though, and they are tiny.

Myself, i want a bunch of phantom power and a whole pile of condensers. I like the CAD dynamic kick mic i have. But for everything else, i would like a couple different polar patterns in LDC and SDC form. I love the condenser i have on toms, snare, and overhead. A better mic than that, i think i will like even more.

Anyhoo, i would suggest as you have decided, to stay away from the CAD kits. If you have nothing, they are a good seed/starter. But i actually don't like the hypercardiod pattern on the tom mics at all. And they are not really better than something basic like an SM57 anyhow, in anything but price. Lastly the tom mount clips that they include with the kits are cheap shit, and they break easily.

I do like the KBM412 kick mic though. Pretty flattish EQ compared to other kick mics. So you can scoop the shit out of it like normal kick mics are, or you can use it for other shit too. I keep on forgetting to try it on vocals.

Geoff... your 57... it is flaccid.

The Apex stuff I'm familiar with is rebranded Chinese mics, ribbons and condensers. Their 460 tube LDC is the most inexpensive of this particular tube LDC which is sold with significantly greater markup by other companies, including Carvin. (It's all the same mic... and their was a bit of a scandal a few years back when Telefunken was using it as a base for their M16 and slapping the Telefunken name and badge on it... and a $1k+ price tag.) It's a nice mic, apparently, and a good mod platform.

That's all I know of Apex- Chinese-made condensers and ribbons.

A $400 budget could get you some decent stuff. Another 2020 would cost you, what, $100, leaving you with three bills for tom mics and kick. You could score a couple used 57s and use those along with the one you have on yer toms and spend the rest on a decent kick mic, or splurge on the toms and trigger the kick. I like the low profile of the Sennheiser e604s and they sound alright; not mind-blowing but totally workable. Or go the condenser route. I liked the MXL v67gs we used on the Garda stuff- there's some really massive toms in a song I haven't posted up yet- but you're gonna get a bunch o' bleed with big condensers, way more than a 57 or the like. I generally like expansion and volume automation versus cutting and hard gating on toms, but that's me.

How big a priority is having any natural kick drum in there? That'll probably dictate where most of your budget goes.

Also, those Granelli SM57s are pretty cool, IMO, flaccidity aside. If i had any 57s here, i would probably get the $50 DIY kits they have for them.

Or, i could just do a whole bunch more of these little fuckers i made this summer:



Fucking PVC piping and Miter Saw, plus JB Weld! Works pretty well with the stubby little drum mics (Sennheiser makes some too, as do a few other folks) for getting the cable clear of cymbals and shit above it.

The stubby Sennheisers being the 604s I mentioned. The Audix d2/d4 aren't very big either, but probably out of Geoff's budget.

Also, Chris- that's pretty schweet.

Yes, this seems to generally be the case. I can find lots of info on their condensers and ribbons, not much on their handhelds and other dynamics. The brand sells general shit like live vocal mics and mic stands, but I think that might just be a Canada thing.

I like the idea of condensers on toms but I fear the cymbal bleed would become an issue. It already has been a bit of an issue with cardioid dynamics, so I mustn't worsen that situation... Come to think of it, those little Naiant omni tom mics, though cute, wouldn't be the best bet then.

Natural kick drum, not a priority. Even if I'm not triggering, I'm still probably going to want the big bass and hard transient 'click' sound.

There's a good chance I will just do the Apex pack, but we'll just see what I really settle on in the end...

You have an AT2020. You seem to dig it. They're cheap and... again, total Intarwebs showing as I haven't used one seem to be generally regarded as a decent cheapie LDC. This is metal, and while I know for a fact you're a tasteful metald00d who appreciates the slamming brutality of a real band throwing down in a real room, the sonic realities of metal mean OH = cymbal mics, mostly. Cymbals and tom attack/snare crack if you have taste and class. Close mics for body and metal kick drum isn't, mostly, really, produced by any extant actual instrument. It's something whose sonic signature doesn't exist in reality because of things like head tension, resonance and frequency response. No Real Instrument makes That Sound. Now, natural 200+ bpm doubles are awesome for the rare few who hit 'em with speed and power, but it does not make That Sound. It's the sound of a very very muffled kick drum. Which can be supercool in the really raw nasty hates-everything way. But it's not the overexaggerated Everything Bigger Than Everything Else metal sound.

Get another 2020- I doubt you'll do better- and spend the rest on the tomseses, I think. If you need the reality of a real kick drum you could probably throw more or less anything in the kick and blend it with the sample.

There's something to be said for a metal drummer who can work the toms more than just rolling across the things every four bars. Depth and detail are important if your- or whoever else's- tom work vaguely resembles cool. The resonance/shell tone/body of the drum is really important here.

From my perspective, the snare- IMO, your drummer's "signature" sound, the same as a guitarist's amp= is priority, then the overheads. The accurate capture of a kick drum has roughly nothing to do with rock and roll, let alone metal. We stuff a mic inside the damn thing fer chrissakes.

I believe you are right. If it comes to micing the kick, which is a fallback, I'd likely just trigger it with SD2 in my computer anyway. So I will use the SM58 I stole from my high school for that.

Those little Sennheisers sound nice right now.

Pouncing on them SM57s on Craigs and Kijiji.

I just went to a coffee shop to meet with someone who was offering 4 SM57s, 80$ a piece. He was a little chinese guy and all four mics were counterfeit.


So now I have four counterfeit SM57s... NAWWWWT.

Slightly disappoint.

Did you taintpunch him?

Hehe, that would have been mildly cool.

I told him they were fake, explained how I could tell even though I suspect he was just playing dumb, wished him a Merry Christmas and then left.

The next batch of counterfeits will definitely be better, visually.

It will get to the point that one will need to bring a scale and a screwdriver to the deal.

That is what Shure gets though, for keeping the prices of those fucking things so high. Does anyone else remember back in the nineties when the SMs dropped down to $70 new? In my mind, that will always be the reasonable new price for those things.

I KNOW, they are way cheaper than other big name established mic types, but even still. $100 per, is too many.

I am agreeing. A mic with its 'use everywhere workhorse' rep ought to cost like something that fits the role.

Seriously. It would be cheaper to use the AT2020s as tom/snare mics. Probably sound better too.