http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=ZEDSeries&ProductId=ZEDR16

I'm considering ordering these come mixtime to see if I like the sonics and level of control. 16 mono channels i/o via the integrated Firewire interface (not counting the main stereo mix)- through analog channels; it's not a digital desk- plus four stereo channels assignable to the main mix at mixdown, and I believe the 2-track in is assignable as well, which makes for 26 channels through the board come mix time. (And I have ten good channels out, so... yeah, I know another A/D stage there, but for stuff like softsynths that started out there anyhow...) Without a giant console (probably old, and of questionable provenance, and probably only 24 channels...) I'm still doing a lot of grouping in the DAW anyhow. Hell, I did it on a 40 channel SSL, still stemming stuff out. It works.

Full DAW control, with faders and knobs being assignable to DAW functions as well as working in the analog domain, insert points, good EQ... it's really a tempting option and reasonably priced. Even the guys on Gearslutz like it, and they hate every piece of gear ever made.

I am considering this as a viable option. The Midas Venice F series seems lovely, as does the 24 channel Allen & Heath with full automation, but those are mad bucks. Not Neve or API bucks, but not particularly affordable either.

I would have no idea where to begin even plugging one of those in.

But I is a n00b, a broke n00b with no access to recording gearz.

The AC jack in the back would be a good start.

Oh yeah, i was reading aboot those a few months back. They look pretty cool.

Though. If you are going to be running a fullsize desktop/rack-based rig, is firewire the best way to go?

IMO, firewire is a necessary (and welcome) evil on a portable/laptop-based rig, but on a desktop(or rackmount), you might be able to get along more solidly/reliably with a hardware/card-based i/o...

The functioning as an assignable controller is pretty big though, assuming it works as well as advertised in that role. That i guess would be the main selling point to me, of going with firewire in a desktop-based rig.

Another one that looks right decent to me in a similar fashion, is the Mackie Onyx 16xx-ish series. They come in about $500 less than the A&H ones(but are less aesthetically "pretty" i guess). What is interesting about them to me though, is that they are *also* available as straight up analog mixers, but they still have a little slot in them for an easy add-on firewire unit that allows the digital i/o and the controller assign-ability/integration. The interesting bit comes in the possibility that the regular analog mixers could show up more often used for cheaper. The firewire add-on is a simple plug-and-play and itself is only like $3-400 IIRC. Worth checking out mayhap.

WHY NOT DC?

I looked at those. They don't have quite the same level of DAW controller functionality I don't think or as many inputs on mixdown though. Being able to stem 24/26 channels through is a selling point for me. That being said, if you could put a Firewire card in the Onyx 32.4, I would buy one right now, not even joking. I've spent quite a bit of time behind the older Mackies, and the Onyx series is by all accounts a big step up sonically.

I understand the whole setup's gonna be a fair bit of coin, so I'm trying to figger the most effective combination of cash and sonics. I'd still half think a couple Lynx cards (these are mad cheap on Gearslutz, something like $350 is the going rate?) and a big ol' Soundcraft (Ghost or Delta most likely) or TAC Scorpion or something along those lines, even if it needs a bit of lovin', wouldn't be a bad idea for circa $3k all told.

DC is for villains.

...granted if I could find a pair of 1640 or 1640is on the cheap... that's a lot of channels.

I do really want to start patching in Fun Hardware. For one, I'm still totally into the idea of you- you being Chris- making me the Oppressor. And I'd like to start collecting nasty horrid compressors that aren't quite so nice- things like the Shure Level-Loc and Gates Solid Statesman; mean crunchy sounding filthboxes for hammering audio as I am wont to do. If I'm patching in hardware, I really want it to be doing something obvious. Clean and transparent is easy to achieve in digital, which is its own animal. I think I may have a couple 3630s in my parents' basement still, which I found out years later do that electronica-pump-kick thing and people actually like them for that, same as pushing a Mackie 8 Bus into the red. Like, the shit that I fought against trying to mix when I was, like, 20.

Yarr, luckily i am far too broke to have to make a decision for a new rig right now, as there are almost too many, and somehow too few, options for getting it done.

Like, there are a lot of different things out right now, but at the same time, i can't think of one of them that is 100% what i am looking for, personally.

I will probably be doing the laptop/firewire thing for a while though, maybe going to USB2 at some point, when i get tired of dealing with the "will it lose sync at an inopportune time in this session?" scene of firewire connectivity. I would like to experiment with a USB interface anyhow, and see if it just provides other problems as a trade off.

At this point though, i am not at all concerned with mixing stuff, only the input side. I would honestly be 100% happy with 20 channels of completely stripped down, no bells/whistles A/D into a hardware PCIe card. And then just a ghetto pile of preamps and crap that could evolve over time into some sort of proper beast.



For what you are talking aboot though, this ZEDR16 does look powerfully interesting. $2000, and results in a basic rig which is dead simple, just two pieces really. Which considering the combo of analog, digital, and control interface functionality, is an awful lot of good stuff.

Concurred re: the too many but not enough options thing. It's application dependent. I don't need all the mic pres, for example. But I do want EQ, insert points, sends/returns and DAW control on a whole mess of channels. I rarely track a whole bunch of stuff at once, and when I do, it's not in my home studio, where, realistically, I need a line mixer where I can throw a handful of preamps or DIs on there.

The Onyx 16xx with integrated Firewire and the Zed R16 occupy a niche nothing else does. Allen & Heath has a bigger version- the GS24 (developed on and with input from Gearslutz... is the name a coincidence?) with full automation and a larger format... but a price to match. The Midas Venice F series added Firewire and some design revisions (to the layout, plus 100mm faders, supposedly better preamps and EQ) but again, those are getting up there cost-wise.

That was sort of my dilemma for a while, contemplating the summing mixer + controller thing, but then I'm realizing what I want is a console. I want insert points, I want EQ, sends, whatnot...

It is also hard to argue with a great big ol' bank of knobs and fiddlybits that actually DO stuff. Like IRL.

One almost feels that one should embrace that aspect especially on some level, while these things are still being actively produced. It will only be a matter of time before ACTUAL faders and ACTUAL pots and ACTUAL cables and ACTUAL consoles, will give way to a wireless network of virtual control surfaces.

Slick as fuck. But fairly less neat/awesome.

Embrace the hardware while we still have it, yo.

A very longterm goal of mine is definitely some sort of terrible DIY consolebeast. It just seems like it would be goodtimes.

There's something to be said for that. I am strongly leaning towards picking one of these up in a couple weeks. If I think it sucks or doesn't make a qualitative improvement on things, I can always send it back.

I like this DIY consolebeast idea. Is it just a vague general concept at this point or do you have some ideas re: the design? I'm assuming it would be fairly modular in nature?

Just really rough ideas at this point, as who knows what will be available when/if i can someday afford to construct anything(there is currently NO cheap way around acquiring console parts: even just buying the faders can run into the thousands of dollars. If you want input and output transformers on the channels, bam, $100-200 at least, PER channel. Even 64 high quality opamps minimum(estimating a minimum for 2 per, 32 channels), come in at $8-10 a piece. Then you need all of the fiddly metering and controls for it. Then all of the pots($2 each x 4 per channel (minimum) x 32 channels!) etc etc etc...).

But yeah, something patchworky and modular would do the trick, no more than two preamps the same, that sort of thing. Make it strange from the getgo. Kind of like a big ol' table-housed Lunchbox. The upside of this of course, is that conceivably it could be built as slowly as one channel at a time, over an extended period. Probably the only way i would ever be able to afford to undertake it, really.

Alternately, it might not be a bad idea to go hunting, and just buy a decent cheap console, and frankenstein it. Or one that has decent enough components in it and just cannibalize it and put it in a new home. Like i said, it depends on what is available when/if i can afford anything. At this point, it is pretty far from where i am at. Right now, i would be plenty happy to just have sixteen Behringer preamps going into a firewire connection.

...and people wonder why mixing consoles are so expensive. There really isn't a cheap way around it; all that stuff adds up right quick. There's a lot of stuff going on there that isn't as immediately glamorous as preamps and EQs but plays a huge part in the functionality of the thing in terms of routing- sends, returns, inserts, groups/busses, panning and all that fun stuff that's in the signal path that makes it do what it does; a channel is more than a line input with an EQ and a volume control, y'know? (And that's a very valid point on the faders- good ones are not cheap.) On a 32 channel desk, there's hundreds of controls.

Re: modular weirdness, that's about what I expected, the table-sized lunchbox sorta deal where you could pretty well route anything to anything else, almost modular synth style. Total mad scientist thing.

Re: modding extant pieces, I gather the old Soundcraft boards are prime targets for that, as they sound pretty good already, have modular channel strips, and are plentiful as are parts. And Soundcraft supports their discontinued products at least half decently from what I can tell.

I need to figure out how to basic recordings of bands on the cheap.


This does not seem to be the best solution.

Something like this would probably be best: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... rc=3WFRWXX

Cheap, but with lots of inputs. All you need is a bunch of mics and USB2.0 on your computer.

Well I have my saffire 2-input USB interface. Could I not theoretically run a mixer through that with the stereo outs ... or am I just high?

Yarr, you could do that too, but you wouldn't be able to tweak anything about the mix after the fact obviously. If you are recording mostly awesome musicians with awesome gear, in awesome spaces, with good microphones all well and carefully placed, it could work.

Oh.





Ooooooh.


EDIT: Hmm they don't sell that Alesis interface at Sweetwater. But, is it safe to say my best bet would be in the USB/2.0 realm then? Firewire is an option as I haven't purchased by new desktop yet (thank god, shit is getting stupid cheap right now), but I am pretty noobish on the subject and really have had zero issues with my USB rig.

The titular device of the thread? No, it is comparatively complex and expensive.

Chris's poasted solution seems pretty straightforward.