Ok I have a two input interface and a 6 channel powered mixer with two line level outputs. So I was thinking of panning the inputs left and right and setting the bass drum, snare, hi-hat and a room mic through both inputs (technically mono) and two overheads, one left and one right.

Shouldn't be too bad right? Any other suggestions?

I suppose it would work if you totally nail the mic placement... your tweakability will be very little, so you're going to want to get it right from the start.

Assuming you aren't playing them, and can adjust the levels while the drummer plays, that could work. It would be like doing live sound, setting the mix up by listening through the mixer and then just recording the stereo feed from the mixer.

If the drumset sounds good and the drummer knows how to play for recording, and you know how loud to make important things in relation to each other like the kick, snare, and cymbals, the technique can sound good. That is true of most drum recording techniques though.

If you are not 100% sure about how to set the levels(knowing that they will be set permanently once you record them) then you could also consider putting the all of the drums into say the left side of the mix, as a mono drum mix, but just putting the kick drum (or the snare if that might be more useful) into the right side. Then just have both centered in the DAW. This would give you two channels in your DAW and slightly more flexibility for mixing the drums with the rest of the band.

The main thing to do, is to keep the cymbals and hi-hats as low in the mix as possible. If you get stuck with too much hi-hat or cymbal on such a simple two-channel mix, you are screwed, and will either need to re-do it, or if you/your drummer are feeling adventurous, possibly experiment with overdubbing snare and kick parts...

Though, to be honest what i would most likely do with only two channels, is use one overhead(nicest mic available, ideally a condenser of some sort) and one kick mic(any decent dynamic or condenser).

Even back when i had no idea what i was doing playing or recording, i got pretty okay results that way. Record the overhead hard to the left, the kick hard to the right, center both in the DAW and you have two tracks of drums to mix with.

I lost pretty much all of the actual music stuff i recorded this way, except for, randomly, the first drums-only sound tests i did with it:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=11337377

Note:

•That is with seriously the cheapest radioshack mics(they sound extra terrible) ever, using my tascam 414 tape four track to record, and then importing them(panned hard left/right) into probably n-track studio for mixing the overhead with the kick drum.

•I probably hit the tape pretty hard because it has some dirt on it there.

•And all of my drums need tuning on the recording. [Also, the snare, sounds like a fricken timbale. That is because the strainer only had like five strands left on it though, not anything to do with the two mic technique. ]

•And i couldn't really play the drums very well back then(this would have been at least twelve years ago?)

But in practice, i found it a very effective way to record drums with only two tracks and without much hassle. I only have one songthing that i didn't lose in my harddrive crashes that used the technique though, and it isn't the best example, being that the beat i am playing is very loud and mostly cymbals, and then i must have mixed it with a ridiculon amount of compression back then:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7939567

So it isn't really a very good example of how good the technique can really sound, but it is unfortunately the only one i did that way that i have left here.

i guess, ultimately, it mostly depends on what you want out of your recording, what the kit sounds like in a room, and what that room sounds like.

i've made decent kit recordings with one overhead and one kick mic for open, garagey sounding stuff with bad sounding kits in good rooms. most often i'll use two overhead LDC's-- about 40" north of the center of the snare each adjusted to balance the cymbals, a kick mic, a LDC snuck in over the beater head of the kick pointing at the drummers crotch, a kick mic, and another LDC out about 6-8 feet from the kit around 4- 1/2 ' feet in the air tilted down a bit. but it's NOT metal, nor super snugged down. then, the rest of the magic is in eq, a little compression (or a lot.. ), and striking a balance. it's not the explosive close mic sound though-- but it's pretty close to the sound of a kit.. idealized a bit for clarity.

what exactly are you doing?

i like chris's idea of having one overhead-- but i think, personally, i'd go stereo overheads (through the mixer) summed mono in one channel, and the kick in the other. that's probably what i'd do if those were my limitations. and work with a fairchild-ish compressor to keep it from getting too pumpy gnasty, but still up the density, and eq the kick separately. just REALLY watch your cymbal balance, and ask your drummer not to shank 'em if he can get away with it, or life will get tough later.

Out of curiosity Dan, why would you go for two overheads summed to one mono, rather than just one from the getgo? I know why or i would or wouldn't, but i am curious as to what your thought process is on it.

just to get as much of the kit on axis as possible-- it's kinda like using binoculars instead of a telescope, y'know-- just a wider field of view? its easier to un-bright it a bit if you have good attack everywhere, than it is to bring out a dull spot in a kit- particularly if you're using cardioids- just cause they tend to be a little lobey-- and you might miss some of the attack of one drum and get too much of others with just one. now-- if you could do it with an omni or something- that'd probably be awesome.. but not everbody has multipatterns lying around.

i did a recording of a band about 10 years back with a single cardioid overhead, and it turned out well--- but it was a little tougher to mix. i had to do a record to a 4 track through a board where i mixed stereo overheads to mono a while back, and i was way more pleased with the amount of control i had- particularly for the floor tom through the OH-- which always seems to be just a LITTLE too far off the mic to sound beefish. coulda been the room, or just me being inattentive when i was setting up.. which has been known to happen from time to time, particularly dependant on caffeine intake .

i'm absolutely certain awesomeness is achievable either way though, and the lastest thing i'd gonna say is that you don't get great results! a single mic is never going to have phasing issues, thats for sure!

Yarr, it does make more sense especially with a wider drumkit to go for more than the one.

My one overhead mindset is more along the lines of embracing the limits of it, and perhaps abandoning the finer details of the kit to be lost/simplified. Like, as a drummer, i want to hear everything all of the time, but really, is the floortom necessary for most songs? I dunno, sometimes probably not. Going ridiculously simple like a single mono overhead can actually be freeing in a way.

Also you remind me of how i need more omni mics. I would like something like a pair or SDCs with swappable omni/cardioid capsules i think. Just seems such a useful thing to have.

Dan has, I think, a valid point re: the overheads.

The "live sound"-type approach in the OP has its merits, but you'll have to balance really carefully and probably, as Chris alluded to, have the close kick and snare up way higher than sounds natural with the drums solo-ed. With the simpler approaches, you definitely want the kick separate, as you're never gonna get the weight or control from only the overheads for rock stuff. That's not to say a single mic well-placed isn't going to sound great in the right context. Combining kick and snare on one track could prove interesting if you want something tight and punchy and rely on the overhead(s) (nothing wrong with throwing a room mic in there too, though I tend to beat them down with a compressor and use them as reverb) for the overall live kit sound.

Depending on how much time you have, do a dry run with different approaches to test and see what you get for results?

We are going to be recording the demo as we write the songs. Time tends to be rather limited so I would rather spend it recording rather then changing mic placement. One close kick and two overheads sounds like it would be nice and simple. Any problems and I'll just switch to one overhead. I don't have a lot of mics at my disposal at the moment though(my SM57, a few PG48's and another vocal mic but I'm not sure what it is), but I hope to change that soon. Should I use the SM57 on the kick or as one of the two overheads? If I end up using one overhead though, the SM57 might be too directional to go on top?

Thanks for the help so far We have some spacy elements(Grunge+Indie+Punk+Progressive I guess ) and reverby drums should work well with what the music sounds like so far.

DOH.... moving mics IS recording

seriously. there's plenty of finer points to it... but that's the bulk of recording right there in a nutshell 'move the mic'..

if you want to avoid problems-- use a measuring tape.. put a mark on the center of the snare, set your mics, and pull 40" to the snout of the mic off the mark. point them more or less directly at the mark, and rotate them around that axis to get as much drum in the mic as possible, and minimize cymbal shrieking. it's not a 'rule'-- but it's a good starting point to get all of your drums and cymbals on mic.

not sure i'd recommend 57s for overhead duty... but if it's what you got, do it. but sadly-- you gonna have to move 'em a bit to make sure it works! do a few test takes and see what happens.. shit.. it's only 3 mics!

good luck with it-- take your time- and hell-- post up what you get.

THIS IS THE HOLY GODDAMN GOSPEL.

If you've not ever read Slipperman's Distorted Guitars From Hell thread (an intarwebs classic)- "The fucking pick matters" and "Everything is EQ". The latter is the biggest point, and it ties in with "move the mics". is in the details, and he always had all the best tunes.

Whatever you think of a 57 (I think they're very dependent on the mic pre; I don't hate them and feel they have their place) they're the sort of thing that can be relied upon to sound meh on everything (without the aforementioned*). This is not a bad thing. They're utility kit. With guitars- I'm not a great drum engineer and I will bring in a pro or- possibly better, a drummer who's a pro for my drum sessions- I roll with placement. A lot of times it's straight-up, no EQ, at least for dirty stuff.

*-irrelephant to the discussion but they are a different animal through something that delivers the correct impedance to make them shine. Still forged in Midrange Hell, but it's a better class of Midrange Hell.

The better you get it at the source- helps to know what yer aiming for in advance- the easier it is down the line. And you can get a good drum sound with minimal micing, even in a dense heavy context. I do believe I sent a clip to Mr. newholland to show this off at one point not so long ago; gonna see if I can find it...

Lol... I'm just looking for a quick plug and play solution that I can set up and tear down rather quickly. The problem is that we practice at the drummers house and we have to set up and tear down every practice.

And in terms of mic choices, what I'm really asking is which mic should I use where?

they're pretty doggone similar..

put 57s overhead-- they pick up more low end. if you put a 48 inside the kick drum, proximity effect'll carry your bass.

do you have anything else at all?

Unfortunately no more mic available at the moment....

Forgot to mention the kick drum doesn't have a hole (port?) and the drums are located in a large open room in the drummers house.

If i just use my interface: I'll either go Recorder-man or I'm going to mic the kick with the PG48, moving it around until it sounds good and take the SM57 and position it rather high, over the floor tom, and pointing at the snare.

If I use the mixer into the interface I'll probably hack up a Glyn Johns set up or something. I do like the Idea of having the bass drum on a separate track though vs having a stereo mix.

I'm going to finish the scratch track this week so for next Friday's band practice I should have clips by Friday/Saturday

I have about $100 to upgrade my recording set up... All I really have are the mics and the interface(EMU0404 2-xlr interface). I'm leaning towards getting a decent pair of headphones, mainly for mixing (AKG k240's). At the same time a cheap, decent condenser would also seem like a very useful upgrade (a local dude selling an AT2020 hasn't responded to my calls). Last, one of GC more obscure retailers has the Tascam us800 (6-xlr interface) for $100 BIN on ebay.

Drunken Octopus Studio?

honestly? for $100-- stretch your budget and buy this: http://www.frontendaudio.com/CAD-M179-C ... p/1637.htm

seriously. cans can wait a little while-- this will help you instantaneously in most ways, and offer you WAY more flexibility than your current mic sitch.

Hmm... Those do have a very good rep and Front End is not a "big box"-style dealer and carry lots o' higher-end stuff. Note they wrote the description themselves. I have a few pieces from them.

There's a lot of good mic options out there these days for not a ton of money either. Some are easily and cheaply modified to really kick them up a notch, too, and anyone who can build an amp has reasonable soldering skills... (And some of the simplest mods are things like taking a layer of mesh off the headbasket- and this will change the sound.)

More channels going in is always useful though.

Front End throwing in a long cable and a pop filter (these actually are useful. My Shure condenser, for example, is very sensitive to plosives. An SM7, as much as I've started loving the thing for rawk vocals, is too.) ain't a bad deal.

Front end is really fast responding to emails. I sent them an email before class, mid class i already had a response, I replied and by the end of class I had another. Shipping is still a bit high but cheaper then anywhere else and the offer for that mic is easily the best price and it includes some nice extras. I'm going to write a couple of reviews and get a discount. Read some reviews on other forums, and it seems like the M179 a very decent Swiss army mic.

i'll give you a Q&D review- I've got 3 of 'em!

They're solid, flattish LDC's, they're not super character-ful.. but they do the job, have infinitely adjustable polar patterns (so you can change them to allow for how much actually is on axis), and PADS, which i find SUPER useful for dealing with drums and louder stuff. they go nice and low, which'll let you mic kick drums or bass cabs or low toms when your budget allows them to do such.. they're reasonably sensitive, and they're inexpensive. and they're generally just a good clear extended signal out of the void that doesn't reek of super brightness, or murky lowness. i've heard it described as the poor mans 414.. and that's a fair assessment.. it fills that void in my pile o' mics. it's REALLY nice to have a multipattern for room mic'ing-- and you'll add a whole world of dynamic range to your recordings with a condenser over 57s and 48s. it sounds pretty good on pretty much anything-- for $130 with a pop filter, shockmount, box, and a cable-- you really can't do much better, but you surely can do a lot worse . plus-- they're also usable as blunt force weapons... they're relatively indestructible and heavy as shit.